Collin Crowe
Interview date: 7/2/2010
Sticky Fingers Bakery, Washington DC

TP: Okay, so, when did you first hear about Kansas?

CC: I went to Kansas House when I was 17. I was asking people if there were any good shows and someone was like, oh, go to Kansas House. I guess I had been to house parties where bands played, but I had never been to, like, an institutionalized house show spot, you know? But, yeah… that was kind of a new thing for me.

TP: Were you in high school?

CC: Yeah, I was still in high school. I think it was my senior year. Actually I must’ve been 18 though.

TP: What high school?

CC: I went to Woodbridge High School in Northern Virginia. Yeah… but, I’d go to shows every once in a while. I made friends with Angela Melkethesian. She’s way older than me but she’s one of the new wave punk show people.

TP: Did you meet her at Kansas?

CC: No, I met her at Black Cat. Her band Hott Beat would play there all the time. It was a cool thing to go to. It was really weird when I started living there because it used to be a very mysterious house to me.

TP: So, how long was it from when you first went there to when you started living there?

CC: I moved to Kansas in the spring of 2008 and I lived there until we all got thrown out.

TP: So a year and a half?

CC: Yeah, a year and a half.

TP: And how did you find out about the available room?

CC: Um… I knew that they needed a roommate. My old buddy Justin Myers, who I played in a band with called Sentai– he was moving back to DC and he needed a place, and I got him the room there. And then Jason and Gavin were moving out, and Justin was like, yeah, we need a roommate, so I moved in, too. But, well, once I moved in it was all new people pretty much. I lived with Jason for a month or two.

TP: And then other people moved in?

CC: Yeah, we found the remaining people.

TP: Who were the other people?

CC: Corey Faircloth and Andrea Meneghello. Andrea Menegello moved to New York.

TP: So, did you ever book shows when you lived there?

CC: Yeah. We did shows. I think Jason and Gavin kinda outgrew the house show thing, and they weren’t really interested in doing all the shows at that point. But when I moved in there we slowly started doing shows again. Cory booked shows, Justin booked shows. I put together shows.

TP: Who were some of the bands that you got to play there?

CC: Um… I don’t know. I think the big ones, Mathematicians played there, from upstate New York. Edie Sedgwick played there a couple times. By then Buildings was first starting out and I think we played our first show there. There’s this loose jazz thing I was in called Gestures. They played there a couple times, too. Before and after I played in that band.

TP: What was it like? Well, first of all, what was it like to play a show at your house?

CC: It was really easy, because you didn’t have to drive anywhere. And honestly, for a while, Buildings didn’t have a transportation situation at all, so it was really convenient for us to play there because we just moved our stuff from the basement. And, enough people knew about Kansas House, so it was fine.

TP: How did you get the word out that you were playing there, that you were doing a show there?

CC: I don’t know… I guess, I used Facebook a lot. Cory made fliers a lot. We told friends, just word of mouth. I think my living there was really interesting, because Kansas House, it seems like this whole 90s thing. But, I think it was new for a lot of people during the time we lived there, and the Internet and stuff. It’s really weird… Washington Post Express put up a couple shows on that thing. Brightest Young Things would post about it, and like, a lot of time it was too late. But I had to kind of tell some people, “you have to stop posting about this. This is not legal. We could get the cops called on us.” There were some crazy shows and there would be nights when we would just totally get away with murder, like, 100 people out on the porch until 2am on a weekday, and no one gave a shit. But then we would have a show with 20 people attending and the cops would show up at the drop of a hat. It was really weird.

TP: Really?

CC: Yeah, I had to ask all these major publications to stop posting about it because it’s just like… I told my friends about it. Enough people will come.

TP: What other newspapers would publicize it?

CC: I think the Examiner hit me up about a show one time. Brightest Young Things, they’re independent or whatever, but they’re a big deal to a lot of people, and sometimes they would send people to shows, and… when the house, when word got out that we were being thrown out and all, I was getting called from the Washington Post and the Washington City Paper. Aaron Lietko did a big story about it that ended up being front page. There was someone else from Washington Post that wanted to do it. That was kind of crazy too, because they were calling my landlord and stuff, and my landlord was flipping out on me and threatening lawsuits and stuff. She was kind of crazy.

TP: Actually, what was her deal? Do you know?

CC: Um, I talked to her for a long time. I mean, it wasn’t any shock to me at all. I was shocked how long that place was around, honestly. It was one old house surrounded by condos and stuff. I mean, I loved living there. It was a great neighborhood, it was really chill. You could have band practice. There was plenty of space for stuff. And I had great roommates, too. We didn’t want to move out. But, I think it used to belong to her parents, and it used to be really sentimental for her. And I think her parents got her into being a home owner and a landlord type person. That’s what she does for a living, she’s a landlord. And I think that was her parents’ first house and they were like, you keep this house. And it was really sentimental for her. And, you know, she didn’t get things fixed that quickly, the house was falling apart. The rent was really reasonable. By the time we were living there it was, like, $2100. Any other single family home in Arlington, at that point, would cost like twice as much as that. DC’s really expensive.

TP: So, did she give you a reason as to why she was…

CC: She didn’t want to sell it. She told me she didn’t want to sell it. There was, oh, I forgot the name of the company, the developer that did buy it. They had been throwing down hard on her for a long time. They wanted to build a giant condo. There’s that giant parking lot next door to Kansas House. They bought that property, too. But they were coming down really hard, trying to find any reason to come after her. And eventually, I think someone from the development company worked something out with the city, where they threatened to condemn the space for living at because of some weird sidewalk ordinance. I guess the sidewalks around the place were out of date. But there was something about the place where they were like, “this isn’t even zoned residentially anymore. We can condemn this space.” It’s kind of shady, honestly, how they did it. She didn’t want to sell it. She loved it.

TP: So they bullied her into selling it.

CC: Yeah, they bullied her. She didn’t have a choice. If she couldn’t have people living there, she couldn’t make any money off of it. She had to sell it. I don’t think she wanted to, honestly. I talked to her a great deal. I mean, she could be full of shit, but I believe her, just because she had that house for so long, she probably had a million opportunities to sell it. But I guess it was her parents’ old house. They were Greek immigrants turned landlords. I think she owns a few other properties in Alexandria and stuff like that, too.

TP: Wow, that’s really sad…

CC: Yeah. She’s a pretty relaxed landlord. We could be kinda late on the rent and stuff like that. The rent was always reasonable. She wasn’t very good at fixing stuff or being responsible for anything. She wanted us to do lots of stuff, but overall… all the other ex-Kansas House, maybe they dealt with her in a much shitter way, but I didn’t really deal with her vey much.

TP: Who was the person in your house that was sort of the go between?

CC: I was the landlord liaison. Everyone else was in charge of a utility. I just did rent checks.

TP: So, you guys practiced, you never had problems with shows or practicing there?

CC: I don’t know if she was really aware of it. I actually didn’t meet her until we moved out. Like, in person. I only talked to her on the phone. I only lived there for a year and a half, but it was a pretty crazy year and a half.

TP: Did she ever come by?

CC: She never came by. I think other people have seen her every once in a while, but she barely dropped by. I think she would drive past it, she’d like, bitch at me about the yard not being properly cut, but I didn’t meet her in person until we had moved out. I was actually kind of mad at her in the end of it all because she had wanted us to clean the entire house out. She’s really sentimental to the house, maybe. I guess she thought that they would renovate the house but they just bulldozed it immediately. She wanted me to empty the entire basement and was threatening to sue me if I didn’t. And I riled up my friends and roommates to help me empty the basement.

TP: Talk about the basement… you guys practiced there. How did you set up the basement to practice?

CC: I mean, it was different at different times. It was a big room. What do you mean?

TP: Well, it also had this weird low ceiling…

CC: Oh yeah… people hit their heads on that a lot.

TP: When you were going through it, what did you find in the basement when you were cleaning? Do you remember?

CC: Yeah, there was a lot of crap left by a lot of people. I bet if I had emailed a lot of people, they would have helped me clean it out. But, I don’t know, I didn’t bother. I just cleaned it out. It was a lot of work and I felt bad about getting my friends to help me because, you know, the house was gonna get bulldozed anyway. Big fucking deal, I guess. It was pretty stupid.

TP: What did people leave down there?

CC: There was definitely… honestly, I didn’t have time to let anybody pick anything up or anything. But I did score a sweet Technics turntable that I use to this day. I found a nice delay pedal, too. Um, there were some records. Jason had a label called Paroxyism, I threw out a bunch of seven inches from it. There’s like, old, fucked up drum cymbals and hardware and boxes full of tapes… I don’t know. Furniture, old shitty furniture.

TP: Which room was yours? Do you remember?

CC: Yeah, it was the one right at the top of the staircase. It was sort of atticky and everyone always had their bed inside the closet.

TP: So, the one at the top of the steps and you could turn left into a room and you could turn right into a room…

CC: Yeah, but I went straight.

TP: That’s Bob Massey’s room!

CC: Yeah, that’s what they say. I think everyone had their bed inside the closet. Because I remember it had really small dimensions but it had a huge closet. But it was like, an impossible closet because the walls were really bad, so I think everyone put their bed in there.

TP: Is that where you put your bed, in the closet?

CC: Yeah, yeah. It was cool. It would get stuffy sometimes, but it was intimate. It had a little window.

TP: It was cozy!

CC: It was real nice.

TP: Talk about what the house looked like on the inside when you lived there.

CC: Oh, there was a lot of leftover junk from the previous tenants.

TP: Like, what kind of stuff?

CC: I mean, I don’t want to say any names, but the people who lived there before me, they left a lot of crap. We did some cleaning. I was amazed after we finished cleaning the entire place because that house was fucking huge. We never really made time to clean all the gunk everywhere. And it’s a nice house.

TP: It was a beautiful house! What did you guys do to your house on a show day, to prep for a show?

CC: We didn’t do much, honestly… nothing.

TP: Did you have to move stuff out?

CC: Every once in a while there’d be some stuff laying around in the living room, kind of in a way, just put it aside. The room was big enough. You could fit plenty of people in it. I don’t know. There was no real preparation.

TP: Did you move couches?

CC: No. We kept that room generally really open. It wasn’t like a living room. There were two living rooms. One by the kitchen and one at the entrance of the house, but we just kept that one open because we knew we were going to have shows there. We didn’t want to have a real fixture there. We didn’t have any coffee tables, we didn’t put a bunch of couches or TVs in there. The other room was the TV/couch room. But that room was just, we just kept it open.

TP: Did you do anything to soundproof anything?

CC: There were already a bunch of mattresses sitting on top of radiators. That helped, and we usually blocked the front door, with a note telling people to go to the side door, because that would help sometimes.

TP: Did you do anything to the space in the basement where you were practicing?

CC: No… honestly, Wilson Blvd.’s a pretty noisy road, and it’s pretty muffled in the basement. We didn’t have neighbor problems. There was a while when my band, Buildings, got sick of practicing in the basement. Because it’s kind of moldy and fucked up, you know? And we would practice in the living room but we had the cops called on us a couple times when we practiced up there so we had to stop doing that.

TP: Can you figure… what else is on that street that would have been annoyed?

CC: There’s this giant AKA building, which is like, some shitty condo. And there was some townhouses across from Wilson Blvd. I know they weren’t always there, but they were there for quite some time. I think people started coming down really hard on the shows and the music towards the end. We were gonna have a big blowout, like, Kansas House Party, because we felt it deserved it, but honestly we had a few shows before then and the cops were called at 9pm, the first song that a band played. Someone had it out for us. They were just calling the cops. We didn’t want to deal with it. We were stressed out enough moving.

TP: Do you know, this might be hard to figure out, or you might not remember, but do you know if cops showing up coincided with any of the newspapers doing any stories about it?

CC: I don’t know… I wasn’t really too into it being well-known. Because it’s not a legal space. It’s just a house show. How would you like it if you were having a party at your house and the Washington Post put your address on it? It’s not cool.

TP: No, it’s not cool.

CC: It was really weird. I feel like, I don’t know… I’m not much older than anybody else, but when Kansas House started doing shows again, everyone in DC thought it was this crazy concept, like, woah, house show. I mean, I would go to house shows all the time. I feel like there’s this new generation of indie rock kids, like, punkish kids… not even punkish. Just indie rock, and everyone is into DIY culture and really into indie rock, and that’s cool and all, but it’s like these Brightest Young Things kids, they kinda just don’t realize when to keep something a secret.

TP: When I worked at City Paper and I did listings, we would never, ever list shows at private spaces. It could have been somebody doing a string quartet at somebody’s mansion, and sending us something, like they were trying to do a fundraiser, we wouldn’t list it.

CC: Yeah, Going Out Guru’s guide, they have a list of venues where shows happen, and Kansas House was on that list. It’s just some young kids think it’s cool to do that.

TP: And I’m actually kind of surprised that the Post did that, because one of the reasons why we wouldn’t list it is…

CC: It’s against the rules, isn’t it?

TP: Well, you could have sued them.

CC: Yeah.

TP: I’m pretty sure. I’m not 100% sure. But we wouldn’t list it because someone could then turn around and be like, you listed my house in the newspaper, some crazy shit could have gone down, and you could be like, this is your fault because you did that. And they would have no recourse. So I’m really kind of surprised.

CC: I would never sue Washington Post for listing a house show. Cause it’s like, I was doing this illegal thing, and then you did this illegal thing, and then my illegal thing got busted. I wouldn’t know how to take that to court…

TP: I know, and that’s a good point. But, it’s interesting; because we would never list it anywhere and it would just be this underground thing that you would have to find out about.

CC: It’s still sort of happening though. There was a show a few months ago at The Church, that house on New Jersey Avenue. Hume, and Laughing Man played. I think Dave Maletz posted it. And don’t get me wrong, Dave Maletz is a friend of mine, he’s cool and all, but I don’t think he gets it. He talks about how inspirational that show was, and how DIY DC is again, and that’s cool, but you’re writing for Washington Post about this. You know, janitors read this stuff. You know, bus drivers read this stuff. You know? I don’t think they need to know about this stuff. And while posting it he went ahead and talked about another show happening at my friend Shauna’s house and listed her address. Didn’t ask her permission or anything. I think she emailed him and they took it off the website. But I think they kept it off print for the most part. But when Edie Sedgwick played at my house, that made the Express. And I think The Points show was on the Express, too.

TP: And it’s also, in a way, one of the things people have been talking about, how respectful how everyone was of everything, and that’s sort of almost betraying that trust.

CC: I think everyone at the journalist spectrum was cool and respectful, and everyone who came to the shows were cool and respectful. Every once in a while there’d be some weirdo who came to a show, but most people who pre-meditatively came to the house show were cool. Sometimes we’d get people that were just walking by and were like “oh, there’s a rock show here, that’s so weird” and they were cool.

TP: So, talk about what the neighborhood was like while you were living there.

CC: Ah, shitty? I don’t know. It was fine. I liked living in Arlington. It has amenities and it’s not very far from the city. You know, Murky Coffee was there but that got shut down. I still love Galaxy Hut. Orpheus records shut down. I don’t know… I just liked being able to walk to Giant or Whole Foods, get groceries and have this big house. So it didn’t really matter that much to me. It was convenient. It was safe. We wouldn’t lock our doors or anything.

TP: Do you remember what your perception of the neighborhood was as a 17 or 18-year-old?

CC: It was definitely a lot more chill. In fact, when I went to that show, that whole street was like, houses. And I was a little confused which house to go to because I heard a band practicing across the street. I think some ska band practiced across the street. And there was some indie rock band playing at Kansas House that night, but they were like, living across the street and they were just moving amps from one house to the other. And Arlington seemed really cool and chill. Don’t get me wrong, a lot of cool and chill people still live in Arlington.

TP: The show that you went to the first night, do you remember who it was?

CC: Out_Circuit played. That was Nate from Frodus’ new thing. I don’t remember any of the other bands that played. But yeah, I do remember Out_Circuit playing and they were really good.

TP: Anyway, sorry I interrupted you, so the neighborhood… what, being there when you were 17 and being there now, what do you feel like is a big change, if there is any?

CC: In Arlington?

TP: Well, just in that area, where Kansas was.

CC: I don’t know… it definitely blew up. I used to really like Arlington. It was old and funky, and it still looked kind of like the ‘70s or something. It kind of reminded me of how my childhood looked living outside Philly, because I lived on the outer border of Philly. It’s cool. It’s old stuff and it worked, and everyone was like, fine. It’s kind of blown up. I mean, we’re in Columbia Heights. Columbia Heights used to be really fucking cool. You could live here for really cheap, a lot of shows happened at houses, people hung out. But now it’s kind of… I mean, I live around here, but I’m technically squatting right now.

TP: Well, that’s actually… there’s a lot of similarities between living here and in Arlington.

CC: It used to be sort of fringy and affordable, and no one really gave a crap.

TP: What else can you talk about, sort of the way you guys functioned as a house, the people who lived there.

CC: It was pretty chill. Everyone really knew what they were getting into. I mean, it wasn’t like the cleanest house, but there’s so much space it didn’t really feel invasive, how messy it was, in general. Does that make sense?

TP: Yeah, no it totally makes sense.

CC: Yeah, but I don’t think any of us are nasty, vegan crust punks, anarchy co-op type dudes or anything like that you know? We’re reasonable dudes, we drink beer and hang out and watch movies. It was a house, first and foremost.

TP: So you guys hung out together.

CC: Yeah, I’m still best buddies with them, the roommates of the house.

TP: What do you think is a significant moment of yours that came out of that house?

CC: Aw, I don’t know… A significant moment that came out of that house… I’m trying to think, I don’t know.

TP: Yeah, every time I get to that question, everyone’s like, wow!

CC: I don’t know… I can’t think of one.

TP: Or maybe a montage of something…

CC: Um, I think the most fun show we ever had was also the most insane one, and it’s when Edie Sedgwick and Mathematicians played. It was, like, it was extremely packed and it almost felt like a club, because Mathematicians incorporate a lot of lights and projections to their set, and it looks absolutely crazy when they play anywhere.

TP: And they set all that stuff up?

CC: Yeah.

TP: How did they set it up?

CC: Everywhere. But, it was just insane. Crowd surfing, crowds, it was like you were at a rock show but it was much more intimate. I just think house shows in general, bands are cooler to watch.

TP: Why are they cooler to watch at a house show?

CC: I don’t know, they’re just right there. They’re right in front of you. There’s no dressing room, there’s no backstage, there’s no weird door guy, or sound guy, there’s no monitors. It’s just bands how they should sound, sometimes. I don’t know… I mean, I never go to the 9:30 Club for shows. I never go to festivals. I’ve never seen… you know there’s always these staple bands that everyone’s seen. I’ve never seen Radiohead live. I’ve never seen Sonic Youth. I’ve been to some big shows but I’m just generally not interested in paying more than ten dollars to see a show and I’m generally not interested in seeing a band with like 8,000 people. I saw Flaming Lips on Earth Day a while ago, and I love the Flaming Lips, but it just wasn’t that much of a show. It was just too big.

TP: What can you say that might be different from when you were watching a show and when your band played?

CC: Um… I played at Kansas House before ever living there, too. In various bands. I don’t know… maybe that feels a little different. I definitely get a little nervous playing music live. It’s a whole other thing and I’m in that funk even if it’s a house show.

TP: Even if it’s at your house?

CC: I guess that would be even more self-conscious. Like, look at me play, look at my house, this is where I live. That’s like spilling my guts. Maybe a little too much.

TP: That’s really putting yourself out there!

CC: This is how I promote shows. This is how I play guitar. This is where I shit. This is where I eat.

TP: Can you think of anything else, maybe?

CC: Like of memorable things? Yeah, all right. There had been really crazy shows, and bands would sleep in the living room, all over the floor. And I remember having hosted a show, that was fucking insane, and waking up early the next day to go to work, sometimes as early as 6am and just coming downstairs and seeing amps and guitars and beers and sleeping bags and dudes fucking all over the floor and being like, My god, this is my house! Is that okay?

TP: That’s perfect.

CC: I don’t know, I think that was totally crazy.

TP: Um…awesome. Do you have anything else? I think I asked you all of my questions.

CC: Yeah, I guess it’s cool. I’m cool with that. I can probably find some pictures.

TP: Yeah, definitely.

CC: Some girl from Brightest Young Things took amazing pictures of Mathematicians at the house, actually. But they’re a really cool band to photograph in general.

TP: So, did that happen, did you get press people or photographers who…

CC: I think Brightest Young Things sent people out there, just to see what it was about. And, sometimes the photos never went anywhere. Sometimes it was really annoying, like this dude would come and take pictures in bands’ faces and stuff, and there weren’t that many people, and it wasn’t that great of a show, sometimes.

TP: That part is really fascinating to me. I mean, ask Ben… that would never happen. It was sort of a little enclave, and that’s sort of really interesting how it just blew up. Do you know long the period in between shows. When Jason stopped, or whoever stopped? Do you know how long that was?

CC: Not too long, just like a year or two. They would host an occasional show for an old buddy of theirs. But it wasn’t, I don’t know. And I think a lot of people forgot about Kansas House. And I think our time spent there, it introduced a lot of new people, and there was a new regular crew who had never been there before. DC is always changing, there’s always a new generation of people moving in for school or work or whatever and then moving out. I don’t know… I sort of spent a lot of time in the area and I don’t see myself leaving DC anytime soon. I don’t know… but it’s weird. I think the Internet… things travel way faster. Everyone’s camera is really nice. I’m kind of old school enough that I remember… people take band photos, but it was always film, and it was always like, woah, that guy came to the show! He takes great pictures. Now, it’s like, sweet Nikon camera, everyone’s pictures look the same. Sometimes those pictures make things look cooler than they really were. And sometimes you could tell they were trying to, because they’d be on the floor, with the camera. What else, though… I don’t know. I just think information travels way faster, and I think a lot of people were enthusiastic. People are trying new things with house shows. I think it’s kind of weird and boring talking about Kansas House because it’s kind of the past, and I wish people would spend their time and energy talking about what new place they can have as alternative. Because clubs don’t do enough for local music. They never did. But people are doing that. Kansas House was really interesting because I think even before the 90s, even before, I think weird fringy people lived there. Gavin had a story about some really weird borderline homeless looking ex-junky gutter punk lookin’ dude who was saying “can I live here again? I lived in the basement! I want to live here again.” And if you look in the basement, that basement was nasty. There was like, two different names, it was like John and Rich, and there was a line. People, like, lived down there. I bet that was way more interesting! But we didn’t have the Internet!

I think for a while, that place, it had always been kind of a fringy weird artists’ house. Maybe in the 70s people played music there, actually. It was a thrift store for a while. Ian MacKaye had an interesting story about the house, it used to be a thrift store and he bought shit there. He bought a fake fruit of some kind. And it was the most realistic fake fruit he’s ever seen.

TP: It was a thrift store for a while, and somewhere early 90s, late 80s it became a house again, but I don’t know when and I don’t know who lived there.

CC: Yukiko from the Rondelles lived there. And Ann Jaeger. Yeah. I wonder between the Thrift Store Days and the 90s Riot Grrl punk whatever, Dischord whatever… Dismemberment Plan, Q and Not U shit.

TP: And it’s kind of fascinating because you can kind of trace the bands that played there by who lived there. When I first started going, they were sort of doing shows, but they were more, like Derek Morton who lived there was really into electronic…

CC: Experimental stuff—Micronytes.

TP: And then Bob moved in and they started doing shows, but they were more rock, but also he did all the Punk-Not-Rock shows so it was very sort of Intellectually 90s, or whatever. But also, not hardcore but definitely rock shows. And they did those and then Jason Hammacher moved in and then it got straight edge. So it’s really kind of crazy to see who lived there…

CC: Yeah, Jason was really into the Riot Grrl scene and Gavin was really into math rock, and tech metal. Stuff like that.

TP: So it’s kind of geodesic layers…
CC: I think our shows were well rounded. There’s a party rocky band that Cory booked. I had one experimental electronic, The Tech Team played. Lose Control played. I don’t know… there’s no real criteria. We’d get emails from a lot of boring indie rock bands.

TP: And you’d just be, like, no thanks?

CC: I think we were more public about the shows there than anybody else. We put up a MySpace account.

TP: Do you know how people found it? How did they contact you?

CC: We had a MySpace account and we’d get messages. Every once in a while we’d be like: this band is really cool, let’s help ‘em out. Sometimes a band was really cool, but we didn’t feel like it. Sometimes the bands just weren’t that great.

TP: So you’d just say no?

CC: Yeah.

TP: And they would just email you through that and be like, can we play at your house?

CC: Yeah, it was a lot of different ways. Friends would hit me up, people would get my email from friends of mine. I booked a lot of house shows. I used to live at a house called Dragon House. It was in South Arlington and we had really crazy shows there. I booked shows at Big Bear. I booked shows somewhere else. I’m living at Paper Sun right now but that place is kind of on hold for shows because we’re having crazy neighbor problems. And I don’t know… it’s kind of nice to not have to do shows every once in a while.

TP: Yeah, it’s a lot of work.

CC: I’ve certainly put in my time. It’s crazy the way… you book a few shows, I don’t know, I’d get so mad, people randomly hearing about me, I’m kind of tired of all these other bands who don’t put on shows, but are like, oh talk to Collin. Like, why don’t you help your friends out? I did it? If I can do it, anyone can. It’s fun!

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